Multiple thoughts on honesty...
Aug. 20th, 2003 12:39 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
podlingOver the past few weeks I keep seeing the same thing crop up in many other peoples journals, the topic of honesty. Not always the same format, many are just hidden under the veneer in other conversations, some are talking about how others view them versus their own views, some are talking about how people speak of or to them. And so I’ve pondered it in my many moments offline. So. Thinking about honesty and what it means to me.
I mistrust people who I find to be dishonest with me, even if it’s really random little things. In fact, more so if it’s random little things, because to me that bespeaks a lack of respect and of true conversation. And the word “true” itself is fraught with language difficulties, but what I mean by it is that we have entered into a sort of covenant in speaking, in which I do my best to understand what you say and you, in turn, do the same for me. I posted about that a while back, about language and understanding, so I don’t really feel a need to go there now, but I will say that personality clashes and the inherent imprecision of language do hamper this.
I will be honest with most people, inasmuch as I am able to, (except perhaps in business situations, which we’ll leave out of this for now) because my word is my bond, so to speak. However, I will sometimes withdraw in an effort at discretion. I recently left a mailing list rather than speak my opinion and start a fight, because really, what’s the point? Really, prioritization is part of life. I didn’t care enough about the argument that was probably going to follow to actually participate, though it bothered me to stay and fake compliance or complacency (which would’ve been dishonesty). So is prioritization a necessary part of honesty? Or in how we relate our thoughts whether honestly or no, to other people? Is it like Hallmark, when you care enough to…? Though prioritization takes more into account than just caring about the topic, it also takes time and energy, which most, if not all, people have budgeted pretty thinly. I often see conversations on LJ that I’d like to participate in, but can’t quite get around to, or give the attention I’d like to give.
Tact versus dishonesty… there can be a fine line. For the most part I try to get whatever message I’m trying to convey across using the most tactful way I can while still getting it across. Because truly, some things are too easily hidden in tact, too easy to miss, and it’s too easy to dismiss out of hand. Sometimes I’ll say what I think and pay the devil later, and sometimes I’ll give up rather than batter my head against something, trying to get my opinion across to another. And then there’s whether or not there’s a need to share… there are many opinions that I have that I just don’t feel need to be shared. Or they might, but with a select group of humanity, rather than the whole. Is keeping one’s opinions to themselves dishonesty? And what if they’re opinions of things important to you? For instance, if you have a friend, and he’s annoyed me doing specific weird things and I think he’s a creep, should I tell you? Is that dishonest? Possibly, possibly not. I could share it tactfully, or I could decide that you wouldn’t handle it well and not tell you, which may fall into the grey area between right and wrong.
Then there’s honesty to self. This is harder. Realizations of dishonesty towards oneself can be damaging to one’s ego. Truths can be hard to face, harsh and insidious. But how does one tell that they’re deluding themselves if they in fact are? It can be a protective measure, a wall that is taken down when the self is ready to deal with it. That’s actually a healing mechanism (when it works), so is it really wrong? I try to be honest with myself, though I may not share those moments of honesty with others, and I think most people probably do the same.
All the world is a stage, and LJ certainly is, so one may have multiple sides to themselves that they show to the world. Are some necessarily untrue? On LJ, or really, any online community, I see a non-fully flushed out character sketch of you. Details add to it, make it more three dimensional, make you more real. Sometimes the reality is hard to deal with, there’s a dissonance that must be dealt with in the viewer’s mind, assumptions to edit or throw out. Is what I show me? And is what comes across the same as what I mean? Am I being creative or dishonest?
Perhaps these are part of ongoing moral questions, concerning honestly, human constructs of changing variability depending on the viewer. Hmmn.
I mistrust people who I find to be dishonest with me, even if it’s really random little things. In fact, more so if it’s random little things, because to me that bespeaks a lack of respect and of true conversation. And the word “true” itself is fraught with language difficulties, but what I mean by it is that we have entered into a sort of covenant in speaking, in which I do my best to understand what you say and you, in turn, do the same for me. I posted about that a while back, about language and understanding, so I don’t really feel a need to go there now, but I will say that personality clashes and the inherent imprecision of language do hamper this.
I will be honest with most people, inasmuch as I am able to, (except perhaps in business situations, which we’ll leave out of this for now) because my word is my bond, so to speak. However, I will sometimes withdraw in an effort at discretion. I recently left a mailing list rather than speak my opinion and start a fight, because really, what’s the point? Really, prioritization is part of life. I didn’t care enough about the argument that was probably going to follow to actually participate, though it bothered me to stay and fake compliance or complacency (which would’ve been dishonesty). So is prioritization a necessary part of honesty? Or in how we relate our thoughts whether honestly or no, to other people? Is it like Hallmark, when you care enough to…? Though prioritization takes more into account than just caring about the topic, it also takes time and energy, which most, if not all, people have budgeted pretty thinly. I often see conversations on LJ that I’d like to participate in, but can’t quite get around to, or give the attention I’d like to give.
Tact versus dishonesty… there can be a fine line. For the most part I try to get whatever message I’m trying to convey across using the most tactful way I can while still getting it across. Because truly, some things are too easily hidden in tact, too easy to miss, and it’s too easy to dismiss out of hand. Sometimes I’ll say what I think and pay the devil later, and sometimes I’ll give up rather than batter my head against something, trying to get my opinion across to another. And then there’s whether or not there’s a need to share… there are many opinions that I have that I just don’t feel need to be shared. Or they might, but with a select group of humanity, rather than the whole. Is keeping one’s opinions to themselves dishonesty? And what if they’re opinions of things important to you? For instance, if you have a friend, and he’s annoyed me doing specific weird things and I think he’s a creep, should I tell you? Is that dishonest? Possibly, possibly not. I could share it tactfully, or I could decide that you wouldn’t handle it well and not tell you, which may fall into the grey area between right and wrong.
Then there’s honesty to self. This is harder. Realizations of dishonesty towards oneself can be damaging to one’s ego. Truths can be hard to face, harsh and insidious. But how does one tell that they’re deluding themselves if they in fact are? It can be a protective measure, a wall that is taken down when the self is ready to deal with it. That’s actually a healing mechanism (when it works), so is it really wrong? I try to be honest with myself, though I may not share those moments of honesty with others, and I think most people probably do the same.
All the world is a stage, and LJ certainly is, so one may have multiple sides to themselves that they show to the world. Are some necessarily untrue? On LJ, or really, any online community, I see a non-fully flushed out character sketch of you. Details add to it, make it more three dimensional, make you more real. Sometimes the reality is hard to deal with, there’s a dissonance that must be dealt with in the viewer’s mind, assumptions to edit or throw out. Is what I show me? And is what comes across the same as what I mean? Am I being creative or dishonest?
Perhaps these are part of ongoing moral questions, concerning honestly, human constructs of changing variability depending on the viewer. Hmmn.
no subject
Date: 2003-08-20 04:00 pm (UTC)If I say a tree is a larger species of plant, that is true. But it is also true that it is a source of wood and lumber when cut down, a food source and a shelter for birds, small animals, and insects. It is also a source of comfort for certain people, by touch, scent, or sight. Saying one of those things does not make the others untrue.
I, too, insist on honesty in my relationships. I do not tolerate lies about unimportant things because they show a lack of stability when dealing with a person. They demonstrate weakness of character in their fear of being honest, or their need for attention. (There may come a time when I depend on that person, and they demonstrate their unreliability with their inability to speak truth. Without trust, there is no real friendship). I do not tolerate lies about big things because the relationship becomes even more false at that point.
I am more forgiving about lies to one's self...it is often, as you say, difficult to see when we do this to ourselves. I try to keep my own motives pure, but that is difficult sometimes. I have a therapist to keep me honest. I will confront friends if I think they are lying to themselves....sometimes vehemently. I do not expect them to agree with me, nor do I expect them to change their minds...but I feel that if I truly care for them, I have to try to express my opinion just once...I do not think it is ever healthy to lie to one's self. I think it is just as easy to say, "I have an issue that I'm not going to think about because it's too difficult to deal with...but I'm aware that I have to deal with it at a later date," as it is to say, "I don't have a problem with that and fuck you." One can choose to act in a dysfunctional way if it is truly choice and not habit...I chose to cut myself when living in my parents house...it was either that or suicide. It was not healthy, and I KNEW it was not healthy, but it was what I could do at the time, and I resolved to deal with it at a later date. I think one is a much more responsible (and honest) approach.
As
Or maybe it's just part of communication.
...no...but the connection is somewhere there and very strong and very deep. Honesty brings a deeper level of communication, and brings about truth...it brings it in a way that the moon brings the tide in...it's this irresistable irrevocable pull...and it is repulsed by dishonesty I think.
Anyway...my goal in the long run is to light the jewel up from the inside....until I see the light patterns dancing on the wall, I'm not done.
But I've always been a bit over the top, I think.
no subject
Date: 2003-08-21 07:06 am (UTC)I think part of it is just that I don't really understand the "why" behind small dishonesty. It doesn't work out in the dishonest persons favor for the most part, so why continue in that cycle? Though I suppose there are some things that I don't mention to various family members, because I know they would disapprove and I don't want to have to hear about it for as long as we both live (we're talking things like me having a kayak in my living room, I'd never hear the end of it if my grandmother knew, seriously). Though that brings up another question, is it dishonesty if you neglect to tell people things? I mean, the kayak thing is hardly something that affects anyone but me, so is neglecting to mention it dishonest?
And this is not really that closely tied to what you're saying (though it sparked it), but I feel, for me, that attempting to communicate, attempting to understand both *what* other people are saying as well as *why* they're saying it, is the most important part of the communication process. When your own emotions come into it, it does tend to muddy things, so instead of trying to figure out why your friend is freaking, you're wondering if they still love you, and there's anger there on both sides, because of the miscommunication that is occuring.
no subject
Date: 2003-08-21 07:53 am (UTC)I also think that if you are lying to yourself, it is possibly easier to extend that discourtesty to others as well.